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Blogs are good for every one where we get lots of information for any topics nice job keep it up !!!


Kurt

Do it.

I may steal it.

I'll give you a footnote.

John B

Kurt,

Of course you can steal it. I think that the real power of blogs is the sharing of information and ideas. And in this case, the more the word gets out, the better.

Steve

Nothing in Amendment 1 would require a pastor to automatically receive such a person into professing membership. The amendment says "shall be eligible to become professing members." This does not preclude the necessity of a process of Christian initiation, instruction and preparation for membership.

I'm sorry, but your argument does not hold up. It is not an accurate representation of Amendment 1.

John B

Nowhere in Admentment 1 is the process of Christian initiation, instruction and preparation for membership mentioned.

There is only one requirement.

"All persons, upon taking the vows declaring the Christian faith and relationship in Jesus Christ, shall be eligible to become professing members."

The operative word here is "shall." By using the word "shall," it closes the door any type of required preparation for membership. There are no provision anywhere by which anyone may discern if the person who is taking the vows is demonstrating that his/her life and beliefs are in alignment with the Christian faith. It is totally up to the individual who desires to become a member.

I always willing to admit that I am in error, but I would challenge anyone to show me in the new rules for membership where it is specifically stated that a congregaton or pastor has the right to require some type of preparation for or demonstration of Christian discipleship before a person "shall" become a member of the church.

Since it's not specifically stated, then it must be concluded that it is not so. Just because it has been the practice of the past doesn't mean it will continue in the same way.

Brad S

Paragraph 216.3 states that "Preparation for that expereince of profession of faith and confirmation shall be provided for all people, including adults." Also Paragraph 217 "When persons unite as professing members with a local United Methodist church, the profess their faith in God... Thus, they make known their desire to live their daily lives as disciples of Jesus Christ." Paragraph 221 "All members are to be held accountable for faithfulness to their covenant of baptism.

I believe that these statements within the Discipline would prevent a scenario like the one you describe.

John B

Brad,

I appreciate your thoughtful comments and the effort you put into finding the Disciplinary paragraphs that address some of my concerns. However, I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

Here's the reason why. The paragraphs you quoted, which make the case for preparation, are not a part of our Constitution. Amendment 1 is. Constitutional statements supersede other Disciplinary statements.

Thus I continue to believe that while "preparation...shall be provided," there is still no avenue for discerning whether or not after this preparation a person is truly ready to make a profession of faith. If an individual says, "I've taken the membership classes and now want to join the church," even if that individual continues to hold the bigoted views I used in my example, because of the changes brought about by Amendment 1, there is no means of preventing that individual from becoming a full member.

The intent of this Amendment is to strip pastors of their power, and I beleive responsibilty, of determining if an individual demonstrates "their desire to live their daily lives as disciples of Jesus Christ." Of this there can be no doubt.

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